I support taking care of the sick whereas you hate the poor. Now let’s have a mature discussion.

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  1. I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

    .. at least this is what I think you are referring to…

    ” No one should die because they cannot afford health care, and no one should go broke because they get sick. If you agree, please post this as your status for the rest of your life.

    or how about:

    I support our military whereas you are a traitor. Now let’s have a mature discussion.. 😉

    1. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

      Heh.

      The FB meme was one inspiration. It was really a bunch of little things. Like this item from BoingBoing, in which the same blurb that praises Al Franken for using “reasoned discourse” refers to his interlocuters as an “angry mob” of “teabaggers” (I love the comments about how it really is an “angry mob” by Minnesotan standards). Or the FB comment thread where someone divided the debate into those who are “pro-reform” (those who support Obama’s plan) and those who are “anti-reform” (those who don’t). I’ve yet to talk to anyone who is against healthcare reform in this country and wants to maintain the status quo.

      I see this outrage at the anti-intellectual tactics people on the Right are using in the healthcare debate. And I get that, and I share it. I hate it when people try to shut down rational debate.

      But it just seems like a lot of the people who are outraged – and they are intelligent, reasonable people – don’t even see the degree to which they are shutting down debate before it even gets started, through their framing of the issue. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen the “teabagger” stereotype applied to anyone who opposes ObamaCare. When you start the debate by demanding that your opponent justify his position as a child-hating, kitten-kicking GOP-funded teabagger who wants everything to go on exactly as it has, you really shouldn’t be surprised when he says “fuck you, I’m not even going to play”.

      I have to wonder how much of the acting-out that goes on at town halls, etc. has to do with people who unconsciously realise that their point of view has been nullified by clever issue-framing, but don’t have the sophistication to articulate that fact or respond in kind.

      1. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

        I have to wonder how much of the acting-out that goes on at town halls, etc. has to do with people who unconsciously realise that their point of view has been nullified by clever issue-framing, but don’t have the sophistication to articulate that fact or respond in kind.

        THANK YOU. I have been trying to explain this to my friends on both side of the fence for months. Like in this comment thread.

        The educated elite in this country seem to think that every citizen who has never gone to college should become Good Will Hunting in preparation for a town hall meeting. How are people who have never been taught to effectively express their ideas supposed to effectively express their ideas?

        Those people should stop giving us food, then see who’s laughing. (Although, in truth, all the farmers I’ve met recently have college degrees. . .which makes no sense to me whatsoever.)

        1. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

          I can actually understand the farmers with college degrees thing. For an efficient farm, it really is more than just seeds go in, food comes out. There is a pretty large range of degree programs designed for different types of farmers.

          http://www.universities.com/Careers/AgricultureNatural_Resource_Farmers__Ranchers.html

          1. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

            Agreed that farmers need a lot of knowledge and experience in order to run a farm.

            Not agreed that this knowledge and experience needs to come from a degree granting institution. There are degrees for everything these days. It’s the biggest racket. “Hey, pay us thousands of dollars and spend four years so we can teach you stuff your parents could have taught you!”

            I guess I can see pursuing a farming related degree if you have never actually lived or worked on a farm, but if you grew up on one or have a family member who owns a farm, you do not need a frickin degree. Maybe a few continuing ed classes about sustainable irrigation and other new technology, but still not a degree.

            I am currently learning hands on that farming is something you really have to learn by doing. I’m not saying I have a problem with farmers who have degrees, I’m just saying that I don’t think a degree is in any way necessary to be an effective farmer.

          2. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

            Agreed, I know a significant amount of people who had parents who were farmers and they intend to do the exact same thing and never intended to go any farther with schools than 12th grade.

            I keep seeing more farms leaving the hands of small family farmers because the children aren’t interested in farming. Some of the families are selling the farms to real estate developers, but some are selling them to the larger farming companies. I would never consider taking up farming out of the blue, but apparently there are fair amount of people who do.

            I wouldn’t be suprised if the majority of the people who go to school for a farming degree are looking for a job with one of the farming corporations instead of owning a farmstead. I know my uncle went to school for an agriculture degree, but I believe he work(ed/s) for a company that works with genetically engineered crops.

    2. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

      Or to put it much more succinctly, a reasoned debate does not start with “So have you stopped beating your wife?”. And if you start a debate that way, you shouldn’t be surprised when you find yourself defending against accusations of doing unmentionable things to livestock.

      1. Re: I don’t know if you saw my facebook mutation of that…

        You: So, have you stopped beating your wife?

        Me: Yes, but I’ve started beating YOUR MOM instead.

        Now to re-translate that response into a political analogy of some sort. Hmmmm. . .

  2. An excellent distillation, sir.

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