I am tempted to say that the conventional wisdom, and much of the popular literature, concerning relationships is full of shit.
Don’t try to change the other person, they say. Rather, seek compromise.
But we define ourselves through our actions. And compromise implies a change in our actions. Therefore, compromise is change.
Not that change is necessarily a bad thing. But people should call it what it is. We are seeking to change each other. No more and no less.
Well put.
I am absolutely horrible at comprimise, and don’t intend on comprimising on that.
Thank you.
Incidentally, did you receive an email from me yesterday? I’m not bugging you for a response; I’m just a little suspicious of whether my email has actually been going out lately, and I could use some outside confirmation.
I did receive it, and wrote a response.
I’ll try sending again.
Thanks. I haven’t seen anything in my inbox from you as yet. I’ve posted a request for people to send me emails; hopefully I can get to the bottom of this.
Thanks. I haven’t seen anything in my inbox from you as yet. I’ve posted a request for people to send me emails; hopefully I can get to the bottom of this.
I did receive it, and wrote a response.
I’ll try sending again.
Thank you.
Incidentally, did you receive an email from me yesterday? I’m not bugging you for a response; I’m just a little suspicious of whether my email has actually been going out lately, and I could use some outside confirmation.
Well put.
I am absolutely horrible at comprimise, and don’t intend on comprimising on that.
almost anything in absolutes is ludicrous..
incoherent rambling to follow–pre-caffeinated…
Rather than thinking through absolute definitions about change or not.. I think it’s much more important to emphasize the attitudes behind these things…
Example.. I can honestly say I’ve seen the “I’m a generally intelligent woman who seems rather with it overall, but in terms of relationships–I specifically go after “bad boys” because they seem exciting–and I do it with the specific intention of being their savior by changing them into fine upstanding men–yet it never seems to work out and I cannot figure out why” situation about 15-20 times in my life with reasonably close friends…
This is dumb. I tell them it is dumb.. I point out why it is dumb… but seemingly a lot of these people seem to find more authority in a printed book than a real live person…
Anyway… i think that the issue is more a question of “why are you trying to change the person” than anything else… If you are doing it out of purely personal/selfish reasons… then it is not a good thing.. If you, on the other hand, are trying to show the other person that it is possible to do things in a different way–and explain to them why it might be better for them–and they agree with you and want to change… then what’s wrong with that… I figure it’s just that kind of change that we call learning…
Also.. aren’t there different levels of change?? Getting someone to change their habit of never putting down the toilet seat might be one thing–a non-essential and non-existential change–but when you have people who insist on changing your entire outer appearance and your entire group of friends to people only they like.. that is a very different kind of change… and a not so healthy one…
okay.. must seek coffee..
almost anything in absolutes is ludicrous..
incoherent rambling to follow–pre-caffeinated…
Rather than thinking through absolute definitions about change or not.. I think it’s much more important to emphasize the attitudes behind these things…
Example.. I can honestly say I’ve seen the “I’m a generally intelligent woman who seems rather with it overall, but in terms of relationships–I specifically go after “bad boys” because they seem exciting–and I do it with the specific intention of being their savior by changing them into fine upstanding men–yet it never seems to work out and I cannot figure out why” situation about 15-20 times in my life with reasonably close friends…
This is dumb. I tell them it is dumb.. I point out why it is dumb… but seemingly a lot of these people seem to find more authority in a printed book than a real live person…
Anyway… i think that the issue is more a question of “why are you trying to change the person” than anything else… If you are doing it out of purely personal/selfish reasons… then it is not a good thing.. If you, on the other hand, are trying to show the other person that it is possible to do things in a different way–and explain to them why it might be better for them–and they agree with you and want to change… then what’s wrong with that… I figure it’s just that kind of change that we call learning…
Also.. aren’t there different levels of change?? Getting someone to change their habit of never putting down the toilet seat might be one thing–a non-essential and non-existential change–but when you have people who insist on changing your entire outer appearance and your entire group of friends to people only they like.. that is a very different kind of change… and a not so healthy one…
okay.. must seek coffee..
The only constant is change, and there’s only two kinds of change: growth or decay. You’re either in a relationship that’s, overall, causing you to grow or in a relationship that’s causing you to decay. There may be aspects of the relationship that are growing while other aspects are decaying, but in the end, a “compromise” is one where, hopefully, the growth outweighs the decay.
Of course, I could just be talking out my ass.
I think it’s possible to decide to grow no matter what kind of relationship you are in.
Absolutely, though it’s more difficult to do that in some relationships than in others.
It’s a lot easier to pull someone down into a hole than it is to pull someone up out of it.
Absolutely, though it’s more difficult to do that in some relationships than in others.
It’s a lot easier to pull someone down into a hole than it is to pull someone up out of it.
I think it’s possible to decide to grow no matter what kind of relationship you are in.
The only constant is change, and there’s only two kinds of change: growth or decay. You’re either in a relationship that’s, overall, causing you to grow or in a relationship that’s causing you to decay. There may be aspects of the relationship that are growing while other aspects are decaying, but in the end, a “compromise” is one where, hopefully, the growth outweighs the decay.
Of course, I could just be talking out my ass.
I disagree…. compromise doesn’t mean you changed anything, it means you sacrificed. After 14 years of marriage (almost…), I’ve never been able to change anything about Scott. Sure he changes on his own (sometimes to my benefit, other times to my dismay). I can rarely change his mind on an issue (although sometimes if he hasn’t set his mind yet, he’ll ask me my opinion and I can help him think through it) But just because we compromise with each other or sacrifice for each other doesn’t mean that we’ve really changed anything inside ourselves at all.
Both are useful… real change and compromise, in my opinion
I disagree…. compromise doesn’t mean you changed anything, it means you sacrificed. After 14 years of marriage (almost…), I’ve never been able to change anything about Scott. Sure he changes on his own (sometimes to my benefit, other times to my dismay). I can rarely change his mind on an issue (although sometimes if he hasn’t set his mind yet, he’ll ask me my opinion and I can help him think through it) But just because we compromise with each other or sacrifice for each other doesn’t mean that we’ve really changed anything inside ourselves at all.
Both are useful… real change and compromise, in my opinion