Someone on my friends list posted on the subject of polygamy, and the poisonously misogynistic arguments some heavily religious people use to justify it. One of the reasons was that since “men are naturally driven to cheat”, polygamy gives them a healthy outlet for the urge.
Which got me thinking about something that often bugs me. Why do people cheat? No, really, why? I know the scientific theories (spreading genes as widely as possible), and the relationship-guru reasons (partners not having their needs met turn elsewhere); but I just fundamentally don’t get it. I’ve been with avivahg for almost five years now. There have been times when I’ve been unsatisfied with her, times when I wanted to leave her, even. But I’ve never once been remotely tempted to cheat on her. If I ever (god forbid) became so enamored of another woman that I felt I just had to have her, and I wasn’t able to negotiate an agreeable arrangement with avivahg, then I’d have to make a choice. And I think I know what choice I would make, because a promise is a promise. But regardless, I wouldn’t go skulking around behind her back. Why would anyone want to bring that much guilt and complication and deceipt and conflict into their lives? What could possibly be worth it – especially when there are more straightforward alternatives?
I guess the problem is I just don’t get the mindset which sees someone else, someone new, as the solution to all one’s problems.
I don’t mean to guilt anyone reading this who has been unfaithful. Actually, if you ever have, I’d be interested in your reasons. Maybe it would help me understand better.
On a mostly unrelated topic – I’m amused by how whenever polyamory or any related subject comes up in conversation, there are people who go to lengths to point out they have never, ever seen a polyamorous relationship work out, and that all the people they’ve known who were involved in such relationships were selfish, immature, and weak. Funny how much of a hot-button that particular alternative lifestyle is, even for people that would probably defend, say, gay marriage with vigor.
there are people who go to lengths to point out they have never, ever seen a polyamorous relationship work out, and that all the people they’ve known who were involved in such relationships were selfish, immature, and weak.
*coughs* Next time someone starts up with that shit, point them in my direction.
My husband and I have been together since Thanksgiving 2000. We have had a poly relationship since day one. I am told *constantly* by friends how much they envy the strength, openess and grace of our relationship. We are legally wed and have purchased a house together.
We are strong, solid and hold each other up.
Relationships don’t live and die by wether they are poly or mono. They live and die by the attitudes and commitment of the people IN that relationship.
Yeah, and you’re not the only couple I know of who are strongly, stabily, poly.
Very, very true. What these people overlook is that these same weak, immature people who fail at poly fail at monogamy too.
This is a bit of a redbutton for me, can you tell? *g*
This is a bit of a redbutton for me, can you tell? *g*
just for subversion’s sake, in such talks i like bringing up the people who murder on monogamous-jealousy grounds. there’s usually a sudden stunned stutter. outside of the box facts, you know.
( to the christian-minded, i like bringing up all the wives the patriarchs had, and all the begatting. )
just for subversion’s sake, in such talks i like bringing up the people who murder on monogamous-jealousy grounds. there’s usually a sudden stunned stutter. outside of the box facts, you know.
( to the christian-minded, i like bringing up all the wives the patriarchs had, and all the begatting. )
Yeah, and you’re not the only couple I know of who are strongly, stabily, poly.
Very, very true. What these people overlook is that these same weak, immature people who fail at poly fail at monogamy too.
Ditto.
Ditto.
there are people who go to lengths to point out they have never, ever seen a polyamorous relationship work out, and that all the people they’ve known who were involved in such relationships were selfish, immature, and weak.
*coughs* Next time someone starts up with that shit, point them in my direction.
My husband and I have been together since Thanksgiving 2000. We have had a poly relationship since day one. I am told *constantly* by friends how much they envy the strength, openess and grace of our relationship. We are legally wed and have purchased a house together.
We are strong, solid and hold each other up.
Relationships don’t live and die by wether they are poly or mono. They live and die by the attitudes and commitment of the people IN that relationship.
I probably read too much Heinlein in my formative years, but I think when I started dating I had sort of a loose appreciation for the structure of a relationship. By nature I’m not a jealous person, and I gave absolutely no thought about flitting from one boy to the next until they started pressing me for commitments. I was 16, why on Earth was I stupid enough to agree to that? Eventually I saw the error of my ways and pretty much did what I wanted to, but then I fell in love. When I got together with my husband (who had been a platonic friend for years) I knew that HE was what I wanted. I wanted to be faithful to him and love him completely and that no one else would ever measure up to what I felt for him. I would never, ever cheat on him. Fidelity is not the result of lack of opportunity, it’s lack of desire. If you aren’t sure about committing yourself to one person, then don’t. Stay single, be honest, and screw whoever you like; that’s my philosophy. In my experience, a solid happy marriage is the much more rewarding of the two.
there are some needless dichotomies there, aren’t there? 🙂
it isn’t monogamous marriage versus screwing-whomever-one-likes.
underneath your words, there’s a kind of – bitter sound?
No, I’m not saying it has to be absolutely one way or the other. I had a lot of respect for other lifestyles, I’d LOVE to have a wife of my own based on all that I do. She could be in charge of changing diapers and scrubbing toilets and I’d be in love. But there’s a difference between loving two people and loving one but lusting after others, which was sort of what was written in the entry. Most people are polyamourous, I love my husband, my children, my family, my friends, but I don’t lust after anyone but the man I’ve promised my life to. I’m not saying that it can’t work, but if you’re going to be truely polyamourous it has to be about more than sexual conquest.
And no, there’s no bitterness.
Absolutely. If I gave any impression that I felt otherwise about healthy polyamory in the original post, it was unintentional.
Absolutely. If I gave any impression that I felt otherwise about healthy polyamory in the original post, it was unintentional.
No, I’m not saying it has to be absolutely one way or the other. I had a lot of respect for other lifestyles, I’d LOVE to have a wife of my own based on all that I do. She could be in charge of changing diapers and scrubbing toilets and I’d be in love. But there’s a difference between loving two people and loving one but lusting after others, which was sort of what was written in the entry. Most people are polyamourous, I love my husband, my children, my family, my friends, but I don’t lust after anyone but the man I’ve promised my life to. I’m not saying that it can’t work, but if you’re going to be truely polyamourous it has to be about more than sexual conquest.
And no, there’s no bitterness.
there are some needless dichotomies there, aren’t there? 🙂
it isn’t monogamous marriage versus screwing-whomever-one-likes.
underneath your words, there’s a kind of – bitter sound?
I probably read too much Heinlein in my formative years, but I think when I started dating I had sort of a loose appreciation for the structure of a relationship. By nature I’m not a jealous person, and I gave absolutely no thought about flitting from one boy to the next until they started pressing me for commitments. I was 16, why on Earth was I stupid enough to agree to that? Eventually I saw the error of my ways and pretty much did what I wanted to, but then I fell in love. When I got together with my husband (who had been a platonic friend for years) I knew that HE was what I wanted. I wanted to be faithful to him and love him completely and that no one else would ever measure up to what I felt for him. I would never, ever cheat on him. Fidelity is not the result of lack of opportunity, it’s lack of desire. If you aren’t sure about committing yourself to one person, then don’t. Stay single, be honest, and screw whoever you like; that’s my philosophy. In my experience, a solid happy marriage is the much more rewarding of the two.
“”men are naturally driven to cheat”
Grr.
I’d have a great deal of trouble keeping relations with anyone who voiced this opinion..
The thing is, I get the impression that a lot of people hold this opinion of humans in general. That the desire to cheat is something that will just naturally occur in any relationship. I guess it might have to do with what I talked about here. I can understand assuming that desire for another will likely arise at some point; but there’s a large gulf between desiring another and being willing cast promises, honesty, and self-respect aside in order to be with them. It’s this leap that confounds me.
Perhaps…
it’s because that leap for them is not nearly as big as it is for you… If you don’t see your self-respect tied up in being dishonest… then the leap gets smaller..
if you see promises as merely words… or as basically more as general “guidelines” than a contract set in stone.. then the leap gets even smaller…
If you live for the immediate concrete experience rather than possible virtual future consequences, then there’s almost a bridge over the chasm that you can walk over…
It all has to do with what values you hold.. and at what intensity you hold each… You obviously hold values that place honesty way high.. and you value honesty intensely… and that explains why you can’t even contemplate cheating…
Re: Perhaps…
Yeah, my word basically defines who I am. If I started breaking promises or lying I might as well stop existing. I dunno… the very thought [of dishonesty] is like taking a chainsaw to my arm… anathema.
Re: Perhaps…
Yeah, my word basically defines who I am. If I started breaking promises or lying I might as well stop existing. I dunno… the very thought [of dishonesty] is like taking a chainsaw to my arm… anathema.
Perhaps…
it’s because that leap for them is not nearly as big as it is for you… If you don’t see your self-respect tied up in being dishonest… then the leap gets smaller..
if you see promises as merely words… or as basically more as general “guidelines” than a contract set in stone.. then the leap gets even smaller…
If you live for the immediate concrete experience rather than possible virtual future consequences, then there’s almost a bridge over the chasm that you can walk over…
It all has to do with what values you hold.. and at what intensity you hold each… You obviously hold values that place honesty way high.. and you value honesty intensely… and that explains why you can’t even contemplate cheating…
The thing is, I get the impression that a lot of people hold this opinion of humans in general. That the desire to cheat is something that will just naturally occur in any relationship. I guess it might have to do with what I talked about here. I can understand assuming that desire for another will likely arise at some point; but there’s a large gulf between desiring another and being willing cast promises, honesty, and self-respect aside in order to be with them. It’s this leap that confounds me.
“”men are naturally driven to cheat”
Grr.
I’d have a great deal of trouble keeping relations with anyone who voiced this opinion..
on the cheating question…
I fundamentally see cheating as a problem created by a lack of trust and communication… but I think it also has something to do with other values…
Specifically.. I seriously believe that all relationships, for them to be sound, stable, and long-lasting have to have completely open lines of communication… There also has to be a level of trust to the extent that you know that you can tell the other person anything… Obviously these things are mutually reinforcing.. without open lines of communication, then trust is hard to build and maintain, but without trust, communication will not be as open…
Beyond all this, however, there are other things that come into play with cheating… In particular, I think some people just don’t see it as such a horrible thing… or rather, let me say.. it is not as big of a problem as other things… for example, you mention above that you’ve thought of leaving, but have never thought about cheating on her… Some people might find that to be awful… how could you contemplate leaving someone.. isn’t a promise to be together forever a promise? I say this not because I believe it, but because I know a couple of individuals here who have been together forever, and may be together forever, but who have both cheated on each other in the past… While they don’t like the cheating.. it is not such a problem that they would consider leaving each other over it.. in fact, they have both mentioned that they’d rather just “not know” about the other’s indescretions…
Do I think their relationship is particularly strong??
Nope… but it does seem to go on… and on….
To go along with the theme.. I might ask.. do you believe cheating on somebody is worse than leaving them? i.e. is adultery somehow worse than divorce? or vice versa? are they equally bad? are there reasons that justify either of them or not?
Re: on the cheating question…
Hell yes. In my personal pantheon of values, honesty is Zeuss. Cheating, which I define as having an external relationship which exceeds the boundaries of your committed relationship without the knowledge and/or approval of your SO(s), is an act of dishonesty and bad faith. Divorce from a marriage with traditional death-to-us part vows is also promise-breaking, so it’s also a major Bad Thing. But other than making the original promise a lie, it doesn’t have the element of ongoing dishonesty that unfaithfullness includes. Divorce is being honest about not wanting to live with that person anymore. Cheating is not having the guts to confront your lack of commitment, while still trying to enjoy the benefits of a single life.
Cool…
I was just wondering… Personally, I also hold honesty to be a higher value than loyalty… in fact, in an unhealthy relationship, I feel that it is almost an obligation to get out of it.. (granting that you have tried to remove the unhealthy-ness and for whatever reason, that is not possible..)
I do, however, also value mercy about as high as I value honesty.. thus, I don’t really have that much of a problem forgiving such things as cheating–also taking for granted that such cheating is in the form of momentary lapses.. and is not a continual thing…
This all having been stated.. I can admit that I have cheated in the past.. and the reasons that I could give are not particularly upstanding.. mostly they dealt with there being something missing in my relationship and me not being honest enough with myself to confront the fact the person I was with was not particularly good for me and that I should have broken up with them…
And overall.. I think that probably colors my idea of why cheating occurs… people are not honest enough with themselves to realize, as a friend of mine has remarked, that they really do need to “get rid of those comfortable pair of shoes” (of a relationship) even if the path they then walk upon might be a little rockier than before…
of course.. the last time I cheated on anyone was 10 years ago… and it has never been a problem since then..
Re: Cool…
A damn fine reply, and one which shows that for all our differences we have some big things in common too. No, I haven’t cheated; but I am in total agreement with your analysis of it.
Re: Cool…
A damn fine reply, and one which shows that for all our differences we have some big things in common too. No, I haven’t cheated; but I am in total agreement with your analysis of it.
Oh yeah
I also meant to comment that just because I find cheating to be such a big deal, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a deal-breaker. In fact, I was in a teen Sunday school class once and the teacher was talking about infidelity. He said that he knew his marriage couldn’t survive adultery. I was so incensed about him setting that example to the class that I called him up after church and gave him a piece of my mind. The next week he made it clear to the class that being real about HIS marriage, but that they shouldn’t regard that as an example to follow.
I believe in compassion too, especially for the people I love; and should I (god forbid) ever have to deal with it, though I’d be appalled I’d still want to know what failings on my part had lead up to it.
Oh yeah
I also meant to comment that just because I find cheating to be such a big deal, doesn’t mean it’s necessarily a deal-breaker. In fact, I was in a teen Sunday school class once and the teacher was talking about infidelity. He said that he knew his marriage couldn’t survive adultery. I was so incensed about him setting that example to the class that I called him up after church and gave him a piece of my mind. The next week he made it clear to the class that being real about HIS marriage, but that they shouldn’t regard that as an example to follow.
I believe in compassion too, especially for the people I love; and should I (god forbid) ever have to deal with it, though I’d be appalled I’d still want to know what failings on my part had lead up to it.
Cool…
I was just wondering… Personally, I also hold honesty to be a higher value than loyalty… in fact, in an unhealthy relationship, I feel that it is almost an obligation to get out of it.. (granting that you have tried to remove the unhealthy-ness and for whatever reason, that is not possible..)
I do, however, also value mercy about as high as I value honesty.. thus, I don’t really have that much of a problem forgiving such things as cheating–also taking for granted that such cheating is in the form of momentary lapses.. and is not a continual thing…
This all having been stated.. I can admit that I have cheated in the past.. and the reasons that I could give are not particularly upstanding.. mostly they dealt with there being something missing in my relationship and me not being honest enough with myself to confront the fact the person I was with was not particularly good for me and that I should have broken up with them…
And overall.. I think that probably colors my idea of why cheating occurs… people are not honest enough with themselves to realize, as a friend of mine has remarked, that they really do need to “get rid of those comfortable pair of shoes” (of a relationship) even if the path they then walk upon might be a little rockier than before…
of course.. the last time I cheated on anyone was 10 years ago… and it has never been a problem since then..
Re: on the cheating question…
Hell yes. In my personal pantheon of values, honesty is Zeuss. Cheating, which I define as having an external relationship which exceeds the boundaries of your committed relationship without the knowledge and/or approval of your SO(s), is an act of dishonesty and bad faith. Divorce from a marriage with traditional death-to-us part vows is also promise-breaking, so it’s also a major Bad Thing. But other than making the original promise a lie, it doesn’t have the element of ongoing dishonesty that unfaithfullness includes. Divorce is being honest about not wanting to live with that person anymore. Cheating is not having the guts to confront your lack of commitment, while still trying to enjoy the benefits of a single life.
on the cheating question…
I fundamentally see cheating as a problem created by a lack of trust and communication… but I think it also has something to do with other values…
Specifically.. I seriously believe that all relationships, for them to be sound, stable, and long-lasting have to have completely open lines of communication… There also has to be a level of trust to the extent that you know that you can tell the other person anything… Obviously these things are mutually reinforcing.. without open lines of communication, then trust is hard to build and maintain, but without trust, communication will not be as open…
Beyond all this, however, there are other things that come into play with cheating… In particular, I think some people just don’t see it as such a horrible thing… or rather, let me say.. it is not as big of a problem as other things… for example, you mention above that you’ve thought of leaving, but have never thought about cheating on her… Some people might find that to be awful… how could you contemplate leaving someone.. isn’t a promise to be together forever a promise? I say this not because I believe it, but because I know a couple of individuals here who have been together forever, and may be together forever, but who have both cheated on each other in the past… While they don’t like the cheating.. it is not such a problem that they would consider leaving each other over it.. in fact, they have both mentioned that they’d rather just “not know” about the other’s indescretions…
Do I think their relationship is particularly strong??
Nope… but it does seem to go on… and on….
To go along with the theme.. I might ask.. do you believe cheating on somebody is worse than leaving them? i.e. is adultery somehow worse than divorce? or vice versa? are they equally bad? are there reasons that justify either of them or not?
“I don’t mean to guilt anyone reading this who has been unfaithful. Actually, if you ever have, I’d be interested in your reasons. Maybe it would help me understand better.”
Not that I actually went through with it, but I have been *tempted* in the past to cheat.
I think it is the problem of trying to have your cake and eat it too…you want to live up to a certain standard that your friends, culture, church, spouse expects, but you also lust for something else. You wind up straddling both worlds, doing neither very well, until things shift and you fall down. My temptation was based in fear that I couldn’t communicate with Jules how i felt, or I would trash our relationship…and one of the reasons I never acted on the cheat was similarily that I might trash our relationship. But for someone who might be more spontaneous or less concerned about the consequences…
Yeah, I guess I can understand it better when it’s in a Church situation, where you have the chioce between the very public, visible sin of divorce, and the more concealable sin of adultery. That doesn’t let those liberated folks who claim not to be under the influence of the church anymore off the hook, though.
Yeah, I guess I can understand it better when it’s in a Church situation, where you have the chioce between the very public, visible sin of divorce, and the more concealable sin of adultery. That doesn’t let those liberated folks who claim not to be under the influence of the church anymore off the hook, though.
“I don’t mean to guilt anyone reading this who has been unfaithful. Actually, if you ever have, I’d be interested in your reasons. Maybe it would help me understand better.”
Not that I actually went through with it, but I have been *tempted* in the past to cheat.
I think it is the problem of trying to have your cake and eat it too…you want to live up to a certain standard that your friends, culture, church, spouse expects, but you also lust for something else. You wind up straddling both worlds, doing neither very well, until things shift and you fall down. My temptation was based in fear that I couldn’t communicate with Jules how i felt, or I would trash our relationship…and one of the reasons I never acted on the cheat was similarily that I might trash our relationship. But for someone who might be more spontaneous or less concerned about the consequences…
Obviously, I know about 2 dozen poly people who’s relationships are working, and have been for years.
As for the cheating thing, all the cheating that I know of generally happens like this:
Person is out with other people, but not spouse.
Person gets wasted.
Person goes to bed with someone else
Person wakes up in the morning, thinks “Oh Fuck!”
Sometimes, person figures that as long as he/she is hiding stuff anyway, he/she may as well continue the affair. Sometimes it’s a one time thing.
Granted, this isn’t always the reason, but I’d wager that at least %50 of the cheating that goes on, especially among young people between 20 and 30, involves alcohol.
Whenever I think of cheating in a more adult population, I always think of the movie American Beauty. In cases where there is no communication, a couple just drifts apart and are effectively broken up but still tied by material things like the house and the kids. So they live their seperate lives however they like and just kind of stay married.
I know a lot of my girlfriends are commitophobic, and have cheated on several boyfriends. Esepcially in the geek population, when an attractive person of the opposite sex pays attention to you it is special and you want to respond. Plus, since they aren’t married yet there is always the thought “Would this person be better for me than the person I am with?” So they sort of start a relationship with the other person while they are still with their SO, and if it seems to be working out they break up with their SO and move on to the new person. It’s sort of a safer, more secure way to date I suppose. That way you don’t have to spend any time alone at all, you jump from one secure relationship to another.
Which, of course, isn’t exactly honest or healthy, but it does feel safer. Also, I don’t think many of them consciously think it through like that. A lot of people just fall from relationship into relationship, serial monogamy. Some of them break up with their SOs before they pursue a new one, others don’t bother.
OK, throw alcohol into the mix and I can almost understand it. I tend to be pretty controlled even when I’m drunk; but I’ve noticed that not everyone is that way.
Dating is kind of a grey area IMO. In most cases no concrete vows have been made, so all commitment is implicit and subject to [mis]interpretation. I still don’t think it’s healthy to be dating two people with out each other’s knowledge; but it doesn’t get as much of a WTF?! reaction from me.
Thanks for your input.
I don’t know that I actually know any married couples that have cheated, so I can only talk about dating people.
I don’t know that I actually know any married couples that have cheated, so I can only talk about dating people.
OK, throw alcohol into the mix and I can almost understand it. I tend to be pretty controlled even when I’m drunk; but I’ve noticed that not everyone is that way.
Dating is kind of a grey area IMO. In most cases no concrete vows have been made, so all commitment is implicit and subject to [mis]interpretation. I still don’t think it’s healthy to be dating two people with out each other’s knowledge; but it doesn’t get as much of a WTF?! reaction from me.
Thanks for your input.
Obviously, I know about 2 dozen poly people who’s relationships are working, and have been for years.
As for the cheating thing, all the cheating that I know of generally happens like this:
Person is out with other people, but not spouse.
Person gets wasted.
Person goes to bed with someone else
Person wakes up in the morning, thinks “Oh Fuck!”
Sometimes, person figures that as long as he/she is hiding stuff anyway, he/she may as well continue the affair. Sometimes it’s a one time thing.
Granted, this isn’t always the reason, but I’d wager that at least %50 of the cheating that goes on, especially among young people between 20 and 30, involves alcohol.
Whenever I think of cheating in a more adult population, I always think of the movie American Beauty. In cases where there is no communication, a couple just drifts apart and are effectively broken up but still tied by material things like the house and the kids. So they live their seperate lives however they like and just kind of stay married.
I know a lot of my girlfriends are commitophobic, and have cheated on several boyfriends. Esepcially in the geek population, when an attractive person of the opposite sex pays attention to you it is special and you want to respond. Plus, since they aren’t married yet there is always the thought “Would this person be better for me than the person I am with?” So they sort of start a relationship with the other person while they are still with their SO, and if it seems to be working out they break up with their SO and move on to the new person. It’s sort of a safer, more secure way to date I suppose. That way you don’t have to spend any time alone at all, you jump from one secure relationship to another.
Which, of course, isn’t exactly honest or healthy, but it does feel safer. Also, I don’t think many of them consciously think it through like that. A lot of people just fall from relationship into relationship, serial monogamy. Some of them break up with their SOs before they pursue a new one, others don’t bother.
From the scientific veiwpoint, in men it has to do with the level of certain hormones in their brains. Men with higher levels of a certain hormone are more likely to cheat and men with lower levels of the hormone are more likely to have a stable home and stay with their wives. There are other factors of course but that’s one reason. Cheating can be a genetic thing, as is the case in my family. Some people just have wandering eyes and hearts.
that doesn’t mean cheating has to be genetic, this is an area where polyamory (or atleast polysexuality/open relationships) may save the primary relationship
Well, very few things have to be genetic, but their is a genetic component to cheating, as with many other things. I highly doubt that in my families case being poly would have helped, Without being specific on a public entry, the cheating had nothing to do with wanting another person, as odd as that might sound.
Well, very few things have to be genetic, but their is a genetic component to cheating, as with many other things. I highly doubt that in my families case being poly would have helped, Without being specific on a public entry, the cheating had nothing to do with wanting another person, as odd as that might sound.
that doesn’t mean cheating has to be genetic, this is an area where polyamory (or atleast polysexuality/open relationships) may save the primary relationship
I guess genetically speaking I’m the low-hormone variety who exists to take care of the other guy’s kids 😛
I guess genetically speaking I’m the low-hormone variety who exists to take care of the other guy’s kids 😛
From the scientific veiwpoint, in men it has to do with the level of certain hormones in their brains. Men with higher levels of a certain hormone are more likely to cheat and men with lower levels of the hormone are more likely to have a stable home and stay with their wives. There are other factors of course but that’s one reason. Cheating can be a genetic thing, as is the case in my family. Some people just have wandering eyes and hearts.
I can come up with several different scenarios where one might cheat….
* the drunk scenario was a good one…. drunk and horny and not thinking and then coming to one’s senses later
* if you really love the person you are with but also fall in love with someone else
* if you have needs that aren’t being met by your current SO and you don’t ever see them being met, but you are in love with them anyway, you may look for a way to meet those needs
honestly, I think making people choose to be with just one person for life sets them up for cheating or divorce. It takes a strong person to deny themselves certain needs or wants for “the rest of their life” and rarely can one person meet all of someone else’s needs or strong desires. Not to say that monogamy can’t be done… my Grandparents did it and seemed genuinely happy. But I think if polyamory were more acceptable, it would provide a solution other than cheating or divorce in many cases.
yeah… see… this one doesn’t compute for me because the only time I’m not thinking is when I’m asleep. I’ve never done anything I regretted while drunk, and I’ve turned back advances while in that state because they were over the line. I just can’t imagine being that unaware while still being conscious; but I understand the experience is different for others.
The other two scenarios… yeah, I can kinda see that… I just can’t imagine living that way without going insane…
I wholeheartedly agree that without the stigma, poly could keep a lot of people from having to make that either/or choice… on the other hand, I fear that already a lot of guys are using poly as a faddish way to excuse their irresponsible behaviour… and that that will only increase as it becomes more well-known and accepted… thus leading to more people going on and on about how poly is always hurtful. Shame there’s no way to publically excommunicate the bad apples 😉
of course the only real way to reach the american public is to spend bilions of dollars on a propaganda media campaign *smirk*
however, the truth currently is:
percentage wise, poly relationships are much more successful than monogamous relationships. Granted, there are far more monogamous relationships, but *most* of them fail (if you are only using “married” relationships, not just dating, then just over half fail. If you go with monogamous committed dating relationships in which both partners are over the age of 20, a whopping 94% fail!… which of course is only to say that 94% of people who date don’t marry) However, in comparison, 72% of poly married relationships stay together and 64% of committed dating poly relationships with both partners over the age of 20 continue to form some sort of committed marital bond (hand fasting, unlegal poly marriages, etc. count)
{note: obviously the “facts” are based on studies and polls that may or may not have been done well and different sites disagree on the actual numbers}
More such “facts” and poly info can be found at alt.polyamory (www.polyarmory.org), http://www.polyamory.com, http://www.polyamorysociety.org,
http://www.altsex.org/poly.html)
of course the only real way to reach the american public is to spend bilions of dollars on a propaganda media campaign *smirk*
however, the truth currently is:
percentage wise, poly relationships are much more successful than monogamous relationships. Granted, there are far more monogamous relationships, but *most* of them fail (if you are only using “married” relationships, not just dating, then just over half fail. If you go with monogamous committed dating relationships in which both partners are over the age of 20, a whopping 94% fail!… which of course is only to say that 94% of people who date don’t marry) However, in comparison, 72% of poly married relationships stay together and 64% of committed dating poly relationships with both partners over the age of 20 continue to form some sort of committed marital bond (hand fasting, unlegal poly marriages, etc. count)
{note: obviously the “facts” are based on studies and polls that may or may not have been done well and different sites disagree on the actual numbers}
More such “facts” and poly info can be found at alt.polyamory (www.polyarmory.org), http://www.polyamory.com, http://www.polyamorysociety.org,
http://www.altsex.org/poly.html)
yeah… see… this one doesn’t compute for me because the only time I’m not thinking is when I’m asleep. I’ve never done anything I regretted while drunk, and I’ve turned back advances while in that state because they were over the line. I just can’t imagine being that unaware while still being conscious; but I understand the experience is different for others.
The other two scenarios… yeah, I can kinda see that… I just can’t imagine living that way without going insane…
I wholeheartedly agree that without the stigma, poly could keep a lot of people from having to make that either/or choice… on the other hand, I fear that already a lot of guys are using poly as a faddish way to excuse their irresponsible behaviour… and that that will only increase as it becomes more well-known and accepted… thus leading to more people going on and on about how poly is always hurtful. Shame there’s no way to publically excommunicate the bad apples 😉
I can come up with several different scenarios where one might cheat….
* the drunk scenario was a good one…. drunk and horny and not thinking and then coming to one’s senses later
* if you really love the person you are with but also fall in love with someone else
* if you have needs that aren’t being met by your current SO and you don’t ever see them being met, but you are in love with them anyway, you may look for a way to meet those needs
honestly, I think making people choose to be with just one person for life sets them up for cheating or divorce. It takes a strong person to deny themselves certain needs or wants for “the rest of their life” and rarely can one person meet all of someone else’s needs or strong desires. Not to say that monogamy can’t be done… my Grandparents did it and seemed genuinely happy. But I think if polyamory were more acceptable, it would provide a solution other than cheating or divorce in many cases.
Just a little bit of me that you may not care about at all lol
This topic hits home with me a lot. I was in a “steady” relationship starting at 15. We were going out for about a year when I found out she cheated on me with my best friend at the time. I was furious and I beat the living sh!t out of him and I went back to her asking for HER forgiveness thinking I had done something wrong to have her cheat. We got engaged soon after and I caught her kissing a guy here or there over the next year, but she always said I was being to jealous. She told me that she wasn’t doing anything and it was wrong of me to even think she would do something like that again. So I went along with it even though my friends told me she was up to no good. Well she got got pregent with my son and we got married a month later. I was working two jobs to make ends meet. After about four months I caught her in the act of cheating again. I was demoralized. Again I blew my top and punched a hole in a cinderblock wall and then I asked her to come back to me. We got back together for another four months before She left me for the last time.
I have talked with her since then and she was very “honest” with me. She said that she wasn’t cheating on me but that it was the only way for her to stay in any relationship, to have a little “variety”, that it was saving “us” I found out she had at least 10 partners.
The summer after we broke up she was engaged to another guy again, we got together to discuss our son and got on the topic of sex and such. She told me she wanted some “variety” so in a perverse sense of Justice I had a one time fling with her. She told me that she wanted an open relationship but can’t seem to talk to the other person about it ever.
I have done a lot of soul searching and I have come to realize that:
1. I can not be in an open relationship…I put my entire heart and soul into the person that I’m with
2. I will never stay with anyone that cheats on me…I will not put myself through that pain again
3. Having someone cheat on you hurts…Duh
4. I don’t have any ill will towards people that have cheated…they will deal with their own demons
5. I have no problems with people in open relationships…if an open relationship works for you more power to ya
I don’t know if I made any sense right now or not. I prob. sounded like a fool even, I don’t know maybe I was or maybe I was blinded by “love”.
Re: Just a little bit of me that you may not care about at all lol
Thanks for your input, I appreciate your sharing what must be a painful story to tell.
I heartily agree, not everyone can be in an open relationship… people would be happier if they just sat down and figured out what they can and can’t accept in a relationship, and then didn’t compromise. So much suffering in relationships stems from partners being unwilling or unable to draw hard boundaries. It sounds like you’ve learned your lesson, and have a very good idea of what you’re OK with and what you’re not. It was a harsh way to learn that lesson, but there’s this silver lining: by knowing your own needs, you’re farther along than most people. Good luck finding someone who will meet your needs and give you the faithful love you deserve.
Re: Just a little bit of me that you may not care about at all lol
Thanks for your input, I appreciate your sharing what must be a painful story to tell.
I heartily agree, not everyone can be in an open relationship… people would be happier if they just sat down and figured out what they can and can’t accept in a relationship, and then didn’t compromise. So much suffering in relationships stems from partners being unwilling or unable to draw hard boundaries. It sounds like you’ve learned your lesson, and have a very good idea of what you’re OK with and what you’re not. It was a harsh way to learn that lesson, but there’s this silver lining: by knowing your own needs, you’re farther along than most people. Good luck finding someone who will meet your needs and give you the faithful love you deserve.
Just a little bit of me that you may not care about at all lol
This topic hits home with me a lot. I was in a “steady” relationship starting at 15. We were going out for about a year when I found out she cheated on me with my best friend at the time. I was furious and I beat the living sh!t out of him and I went back to her asking for HER forgiveness thinking I had done something wrong to have her cheat. We got engaged soon after and I caught her kissing a guy here or there over the next year, but she always said I was being to jealous. She told me that she wasn’t doing anything and it was wrong of me to even think she would do something like that again. So I went along with it even though my friends told me she was up to no good. Well she got got pregent with my son and we got married a month later. I was working two jobs to make ends meet. After about four months I caught her in the act of cheating again. I was demoralized. Again I blew my top and punched a hole in a cinderblock wall and then I asked her to come back to me. We got back together for another four months before She left me for the last time.
I have talked with her since then and she was very “honest” with me. She said that she wasn’t cheating on me but that it was the only way for her to stay in any relationship, to have a little “variety”, that it was saving “us” I found out she had at least 10 partners.
The summer after we broke up she was engaged to another guy again, we got together to discuss our son and got on the topic of sex and such. She told me she wanted some “variety” so in a perverse sense of Justice I had a one time fling with her. She told me that she wanted an open relationship but can’t seem to talk to the other person about it ever.
I have done a lot of soul searching and I have come to realize that:
1. I can not be in an open relationship…I put my entire heart and soul into the person that I’m with
2. I will never stay with anyone that cheats on me…I will not put myself through that pain again
3. Having someone cheat on you hurts…Duh
4. I don’t have any ill will towards people that have cheated…they will deal with their own demons
5. I have no problems with people in open relationships…if an open relationship works for you more power to ya
I don’t know if I made any sense right now or not. I prob. sounded like a fool even, I don’t know maybe I was or maybe I was blinded by “love”.