So I discovered the distraction that is bad_sex the other day, and I’ve been wasting way too much time being entertained by other people’s embarrassments. But I noticed a certain kind of story showing up repeatedly, which reminded me of something I’ve noted before.
Often I’ll read some girl complaining that she was horny and slipped on some sexy lingerie and was all set to fuck her boyfriend/husband/fuckbuddy’s brains out – and he blew her off for video games or RPGing. This usually ellicits all kinds of commiseration from her friends – including male friends – talking about how he’s a fool for passing up such a golden opportunity.
I cannot be sure, but I suspect that if I were to write, complaining that I slipped on my sexiest pair of boxers and rubbed “Oueue de Rutting Billy Goat” on my chest but my wife STILL wouldn’t put out, I would be met with a less understanding response. After all, a girl can’t be in the mood ALL the time, and a sensitive man understands this.
I submit to you that there is a double standard here. It seems to me that we men are often chastised for “always thinking about one thing” – except for the rare occasion when we are taken to task for not making that “one thing” our foremost priority.
“I submit to you that there is a double standard here.
I tend to agree. This also goes, hand in hand, with the seeming expectation that a male should be able to read his girl’s mind at all times.
Maybe I give women too much credit, but I think if a man went to the effort of setting up a scenario where he was going to spend time with his SO, even if the woman wasn’t in the mood, she would still spend time with him doing something. It’s the men who TOTALLY blow of their SOs to go play video games or something, and don’t even pay them any attention whatsoever, even if they aren’t in the mood for sex. At least I’ve never heard of a woman doing that.
Considering the number women I’ve seen defend a woman’s Right To Change Her Mind (which, when stated explicitly like that, usually means a woman’s right to be flighty and unreliable without repercussions), I can’t believe it’s all that rare.
Regardless, I was referring specifically to a booty call here, not to a planned evening of together-time.
Then I am entirely clueless, since I have never understood the reason behind a booty call anyway.
Perhaps I am using the wrong term then, since I would think the concept of asking your SO for sex would be pretty basic.
To me, sex goes with intimacy. I never just ask for sex.
a) I generalyl defend anyone’s right to change their mind if things no longer feel comfortable
b) What does a woman’s right to change her mind have to do with my point that women don’t tend to blow of their SOs for video games and TV?
a) So do I.
b) If you re-read what I wrote, you’ll see I was referring to a right to flippantly change or back out of plans at a moment’s notice, which many women seem to consider sacrosanct. I believe this has lead to many incidents of SOs being blown off for various shiny objects, contrary to your experience. However, I think it entirely possible that you don’t generally associate with such women, since you seem to have a pretty low tolerance for bullshit. And if that is the case, I commend you.
I know what you’re talking about. I think this is more a result of women who don’t like to say no and dissapoint people, so they play this game of saying yes and then waiting it out and backing out of the things taht they realize they really can’t deal with after all, and just coping with the things they can’t get out of.
Anyway, I was by no means implying that women never blow of their SOs. Women blow off plans all the time.
But your original comment wasn’t about making plans, it was about an immediate moment, when a person finds out their SO wants to be romantic. A woman would never think “Well, the candles and the silk sheets are nice, but I really wanted to level my WoW character tonight.” Most women would never ignore the effort at romance, even if they weren’t in the mood for sex.
That is one hell of a blanket statement.
I forgot to put my modifiers in that particular sentence.
Edit to make it less decicisive and more mitigating: “MOST WOMEN would never think. . .”
I think it has something to do with old sterotypes/double standards/whatever have you badness of “women are never in the mood. if a woman is in the mood, you’re supposed to drop whatever you’re doing and have sex with her, because you may not get the opportunity again for a long time.”
Yeah, that’s my impression. It’s a weird mixed message to get – “stop being so obsessed with sex all the time” “why aren’t you obsessed with sex tonight? what’s wrong with you?!!!”
Maybe I am conflating sex and intimacy. I tend to do that.
I am constantly saying “Stop being obsessed with sex all the time.” It seems like half the times guys want sex they don’t even care about the person they have sex with. . .they just want sex. Or they talk about sex all the time, and sexual things (T&A), but they never connect it to a person.
Generally speaking, a sure way to make Gregg pay some kind of attention to me is to offer him sex or seduce him. I’d say that about 50% of the time that we have sex, this is why. So I do get upset when he instead chooses to get up and go watch TV or play video games. It’s like “You’re so obsessed with this sex thing, if I can’t get your attention this way, how am I supposed to get your attention?”
(And don’t start with the obvious, “Good communication about needs” bullshit, because if that worked miracles neither of us would be where we are in our relationships.)
I just can’t stand it when the “gee, crazy unfair women” bit comes out. There is quite a bit about women that men don’t understand, and a lot of these things aren’t about double standards, they’re about expectations. Again, I don’t quite get the booty call ethic, or how one could have sex divorced from expectations of attention and care, so maybe I am missing the vital element here.
But the point is, to women, the complaint isn’t “Why aren’t you interested in sex?” it’s “Why aren’t you interested in ME?” most women just can’t articulate that though, so in order to explain why they are upset they say things like “He talks about sex all the time, what is his problem now?” We don’t want me to be obsessed with sex, we want them to pay attention to us, especially when we have gone to lots of effort to get their attention.
Again, maybe I’m missing the booty call thing, but I don’t think the women who complain about their men not wanting sex would be nearly as upset about it if the men spent the time with them anyway but still didn’t want sex. It’s the abandonment we don’t know how to deal with, and a lot of women fall back on blaming sex when it really isn’t about that at all.
I don’t think women expect men to be obsessed with sex on their whim. If you hang around “normal guys” at all you’ll hear so much crap about sex that it would lead you to believe that they are anyway. I don’t really fault women for expecting to be able to have sex with a guy whenever they want to if that guy spends half of his conversational time talking about how much he likes getting pussy.
What. the. hell was that about?
So if I spend half my time talking about how much I love coding I should be expected to drop everything if my SO wants to have a quick pair-programming session? I’m sorry, I don’t see the logic in that. It doesn’t matter how much I’m interested in something; I don’t think that gives anyone the right to expect me to want to do it any and every chance I get.
Sorry, that wasn’t a dig or an insult or anything. I was just pointing out that despite our awareness of the importance of communication and not playing games that we both still have problems in our respective relationships. I’m just used to the reflexive response to any explanation of “irrational” behavior being “Well the people should learn to honestly communicate their needs instead of playing games.”
Which is true. However, I can say “Gregg, I could really use some attention right now” and that works about 20% of the time, optimistically. If I offer sex, it works about 80% of the time. I usually tell him I’m doing it because I want him to pay attention to me, but it’s totally manipulative and I hate that I can’t just ask for attention. But what am I supposed to do? If I just ask for attention he’s a very busy person and doesn’t have time, but somehow he always has time for sex.
As for the programming bit, I do think that if you spend so much of your time talking about programming, and complaining about how you really don’t get enough programming time, and your SO goes out of her way to provide you with an opportunity for programming, that you at least shouldn’t be suprised if she expects you to be happy about it, of if she is upset if you totally blow her off without even acknowledging that she tried to make you happy. My point about women is that it isn’t just about the programming, it’s about the activity they have planned that in their minds was supposed to help bring you closer together. When you say “not interested” you’re not just saying “not interested in programming,” to them you are saying “not interested in being closer to you.”
At least that’s what it says to me when a guy isn’t interested and goes and plays video games instead.
it’s warped, I agree…
personally.. I just see this all as a big part of the entirely fucked up, bizarre, and downright unhealthy relationship that our culture seems to have with sex…
In particular–the fact that people just don’t get down and communicate about it.. but instead.. make it such an “abnormal” thing in their lives..
Sex just is.. It’s a great thing.. (or should be).. and while it is fun to try and make something special about it.. I still find it far more productive (and even much healthier, but then again, I’m strange) to be a lot more matter of fact about it..
of course.. I’ve also finally found someone who’s sex drive is around the same level as mine.. so it’s not a big deal.. we both like sex–but we also know that there are times when each of us are too tired-stressed-whatever to be in the mood at the moment… Sometimes we try to change that via tequila.. other times.. not.. but never do we play head games about it..
what a fucked up world we live in..
Blanket post about all of my replies.
I’m not trying to insult you or anything, you just hit a sore spot because this happens to me a lot. Not just with sex. . .I get blown off for video games and TV all the time, for various different reasons.
I guess we are seeing different parts of the issue. You are seeing the sex part of the issue. I am seeing the blown off part of the issue. Regardless of the reason, to me it is never okay to blow off a person you are supposed to love, even if you aren’t necessarily interested in the activity they suggest, and if you do then your SO has every right to be upset. You can always suggest a different activity to do together, if you are not in the mood for the original one.
it is never okay to blow off a person you are supposed to love, even if you aren’t necessarily interested in the activity they suggest, and if you do then your SO has every right to be upset. You can always suggest a different activity to do together, if you are not in the mood for the original one.
Sometimes your SO may just want time to themselves or do something else which isn’t “shareable”.
In that case, I would not appreciate my SO being upset about that. Otherwise you’re just writing a blank check for your time which is a fast-track to seperation.
I’m not saying people don’t need alone time. There is a big difference between:
a)just blowing someone off
b)recognizing their needs and feelings and reconfiriming your relationship before then going to do your own thing.
As far as I am concerned, a relationship is a blank check for your emotional resources, and sometimes expressing you care takes a little bit of time. You can’t just care about someone when it is convenient for you and ignore them when it is not.
I’ve noticed that trend, as well. It is dissapointing when one person is aroused and the other is not, particularly when effort and preparation have been made, but as you already said, it goes both ways. Personally I think the dissapointment is more in how much effort has been put forth than in the lack of fullfillment, after all, there’s always your friend the hand. *laughs* Except when that’s been denied or forbidden. *snicker* There was a scene last night that left someone very very frustrated. But that’s another story and situation altogether.
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